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Hi Globetrotter57 - thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Our trip we are planning is a cycling one in Tuscany and I hadn't been able to find many reviews on Freedom Treks but feel a lot more comfortable dealing with them after your positive response.

Hi Kaapie85 - did you do the Tuscan trip with Freedom Treks? I'm looking at booking the Etruscan Coast of Tuscan trip in October 2012 - staying on a yacht overnight and cycling during the day (most days).

Is that the one you did? If so, what was the accommodation on the yacht like?

Michele, Kappie85 has not posted on TA since May 2012. You would do better posting in the Tuscany forum.

Thanks @Balou1999 - appreciate the tip. New to Trip Advisor and still learning how these forums work... :-)

This topic has been closed to new posts due to inactivity.

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Tags: Freedom Treks , Cycling , Short Breaks , family holidays

As travellers become more adventurous with their holiday styles, Freedom Treks has noted a sharp rise in the number of first-time customers trying out short bike breaks.

With nearly 30 short cycling tours to choose from, the cycling holiday specialist has found that many holidaymakers feel a 3 to 5 night break is the perfect introduction to the sport.

Saul Follett, Freedom Treks Manager, said: “For those new to bike tours, a short break can be a great way to try this style of holiday without committing too much time or money. In many cases, having become hooked on cycling after a long weekend away, customers come back to book a longer or more challenging trip for the following year.”

For others, however, weekend or mid-week breaks are simply ideal if they're short on time but big on holiday ambition.

Saul Follett added: “Guests are always amazed by how much they can pack into a few days away on a Freedom Treks' short break. Whether they're looking to recharge their batteries or want to take advantage of better value mid-week flights, they can count on returning home feeling like they've achieved something after a short cycling break with us.”

Of Freedom Treks' range of short break cycling tours, five of its most popular include:

• Escape to Bruges (Belgium: 4 nights from £216pp) – For those who prefer to unpack once, this is a wonderfully relaxed introduction to cycling tours and the picturesque city of Bruges. Travellers have the flexibility to pedal through the Flemish countryside and North Sea coast beach towns on a series of quiet tracks or take it easy back at base, wandering the medieval streets on foot and indulging in the moules-frites, chocolate and Belgian beers for which it is famed. For an extra special stay, guests can upgrade to a 4-star converted 17th century convent for £63.
• Umbria - Wine Tasting (Italy: 4 nights from £385pp) – Just a 1.5hr train ride from Rome, Tuscany's less touristy neighbour is a Mecca for wine-lovers . This four day tour allows travellers to savour the region's charming history and drink in the lush landscapes as they journey between some of its most delightful towns.  And with two tasting sessions of the area's world-class wines included along with a tantalising tasting menu, cyclists will relish the chance to enjoy a guilt-free gastronomic getaway.
• Tulips in Holland (Holland: 4 nights from £417pp) – For a classic view of the Netherlands in the springtime, this short break was designed to enjoy the Dutch landscape's legendary kaleidoscope of colours. Pedal past tulip fields, sand dunes and traditional windmills, cycle along tranquil canals and stop in Edam to sample some of their famous cheese.  And on day 4 there's even the option to take a break from the bike by heading into Amsterdam or set off to explore the 17th century mills of one of Europe's oldest industrial areas.
• Brewery Tour (Austria & Germany: 4 nights from £292pp) – With Bavaria famous for its breweries, this circular trip provides as much of an introduction to wheat beer as the joys of two-wheeled travel. After touring the Austrian Lake District and sampling the refreshing local tipple along the way, what better way to unwind than by soaking up the brew's medicinal benefits - with a beer bath in Franking!
• Bolzano to Verona (Italy: 4 nights from £410pp) – With four days of leisurely riding to enjoy, this idyllic itinerary picks out quiet country roads to cycle through Tyrolean mountain villages and along Lake Garda's glistening shores to the enchanting setting of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. For some well-deserved down time, there may even be the chance to catch a spectacular opera performance at Verona's open-air amphitheatre.

For more information on short cycling breaks or to book call 01273 224 066 or visit www.freedomtreks.co.uk .

For all press enquiries please contact:

Lynsey Devon    [email protected]   020 3544 1563 / 07717 078 862

Becky Horton     [email protected]    020 8330 2143 / 07766 738 020

About Freedom Treks

• Freedom Treks, part of Ski Safari Ltd, has been offering a wide choice of cycling holidays throughout Europe since 2003.
• With over 150 self-guided and guide-led bike tours offered across 19 European countries, Freedom Treks' destinations are hand-picked to introduce active travellers to the most scenic of Europe.
• Its itineraries offer pedalling at a relaxed pace by day and comfortable accommodation in characterful hotels, guesthouses, boats or barges by night.
• All tours enjoy the practical benefits of having luggage transported separately and the security of knowing local assistance is available if needed along the way.
• To find out more visit freedomtreks.co.uk , call 01273 224 066 or follow us on Facebook ( Freedom Treks )

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> Travel stories > Amsterdam to Bruges by Tara Rogers – Freedom Treks

Amsterdam to Bruges by Tara Rogers – Freedom Treks

The Amsterdam to Bruges boat and bike cycling holiday is a seven night, eight day adventure, jam-packed with historical tales and sights of the unexpected in Holland and Belgium. It’s available either as a guided tour with the leadership of an experienced multilingual guide or self-guided under your own steam. It’s also probably one of the best cycling tours in Europe for a first-time holiday cyclist. Freedom Treks Marketing Manager Tara Rogers road-tested the tour with her husband Sean. Here’s how she got on.

Right on Point

If you’ve never cycled in Holland and Belgium before, you might not be aware of the Junction Network (or if you want to try your Dutch ‘Knooppuntennetwerk’). Invented just 20 years ago by a Belgian mine engineer called Hugo Bollen, his cycling signposts – created specifically for recreational cyclists – are designed on a network of nodes, which simply point towards their next closest numbered junction. Following the Junction Network won’t take you on the most direct route from village to village or city to city in Belgium and Holland, but it does take two-wheeled tourists along the most scenic routes.

We found the green and white signposts easy to follow, usually situated at shoulder height on the right hand side of the road or cycle path. Thankfully, the joining of the dots – so to speak! – was made even easier thanks to our dedicated Tour Guide Tom. He gave a briefing after dinner each night, writing the following day’s sequence of numbers on a large whiteboard map in the main deck salon. His beautifully drawn diagrams illustrated notable places of interest, where we’d have our coffee break and where we’d reach the all-important loo stops!

Should you choose to go on your own (as we did on the second to last day), taking a quick snap of the whiteboard on your mobile phone is a quick way to keep the route close at hand. I copied the numbers onto a scrap of paper which I kept underneath my watch strap to glance at regularly rather than hopping off my bike to check my phone (handlebar bags aren’t provided on this particular tour). No doubt there are specialist bits of high tech equipment to do the same thing in a more sophisticated way (a round-the-neck pouch may have helped me look a little less amateur)!

Keep Pedalling Unless I Say Otherwise

Should you choose you stay with the group on daily rides, your tour leader is most likely to be very familiar with the route. As a result, those with even the poorest of map-reading skills will be content with the automated ease of cycling behind the person in front of you (one bike apart, safety now). It was a wonderful observation of group camaraderie which emerged after a very short time. A sweep is nominated on each day – don’t worry, it’s a willing volunteer – and that’s the person who will stay at the back, making sure that the same number who began the cycle that day ended it too. “CAR!”, “BIKES!”, “TRACTOR!” we’d hear warnings hollered loudly to ensure we formed a single file to avoid oncoming traffic.

We’re both reasonably active people. We live in Brighton, and I use my Japanese commuter bike to get to work and run errands. In fact, we don’t have a car, so a bike is our only form of independent transport. Even so, the close to 300 km distance was further than we’d ever cycled in one week. We were unsure of what to expect and if we’d be fit enough.

What we’d not factored in to our equation was the differing topography; Brighton – one of the hilliest cities in the UK (or so it feels on my daily commute!), versus Holland and Belgium – well known for their flat terrain. After the first day’s cycle, despite the unwelcome wind blowing in from the North Sea, we realised the cycling really was going to be exactly as it said on the tin – very relaxing, very easy-going, and very leisurely.

The classic flat countryside lent itself perfectly to day-long rides starting between 8:30am and 9:30am and ending at 5:30pm – there are some days which you can start or end at lunch. Despite being in the saddle all day long, this tour is graded easy and the cycling is perfect for all ages and abilities. Ranging from nine through to mid-seventies, it was often those at the far ends of the age spectrum who would cycle with absolute ease up front or finish ahead of those of us preferring to navigate independently. Many of the group enjoyed the luxury of an e-bike, which gave a little extra and very welcome pedal power. Back on the boat we were rewarded beach day with beautifully-baked homemade cakes (Victoria Sponge never failed to delight).

The route has been perfectly planned to show off Belgium and Holland’s prettiest parts: cycle paths through cornfields peppered with poppies; country lanes through luscious woodlands; towpaths along cottonwood tree-lined canals; grass and gravel dikes across polders (vast expanses of land reclaimed from the sea which now serve as flood plains).

In fact, the Netherlands consists of nearly 20% water and 26% of it is under sea level, meaning no shortage of windmills, pumping stations, dikes and locks on the tour. There are 1048 windmills in Holland – we didn’t get to see them all! – but on day two we visited an impressive collection of nineteen 18th century windmills at Kinderdijk, a protected UNESCO World Heritage site.

In rural suburbia, we cycled through the most immaculate villages and towns, delighted by thatched cottages with gardens bursting with foxgloves, Dutch barn houses with miniature moats adjoining dainty canals, pet goats lazing in outhouses on stilts, noisy cockerels with glossy plumes the colour of autumn. In striking architectural contrast we hadn’t expected to see so many fiercely minimal houses, dripping with modernity and perfect angles, cast in cement, steel and glass.

The tour also routed through industrial areas, most notably as we sailed into Antwerp on day three, a busy commercial port (second only in size to Rotterdam, Europe’s biggest shipping harbour). The imposing scale of the vessels alongside us on the Scheldt River was by now rather unusual though; we’d grown quickly accustomed to gentle sailing along quiet canals, occasionally passing the odd small shipping barge or passing slowly through docks expertly navigated in and out of by Roy our Captain.

The Magnifique is a fine 63m Dutch passenger barge. She was refitted in 2010 to accommodate up to 40 passengers in her 19 cabins, all below deck. Each cabin was slightly different, but all were tastefully decorated with maritime walnut and brass fittings. They were also spotless, cleaned every day single-handedly by our energetic stewardess Mika (floors mopped, beds made and en-suite bathrooms – toilet, basin and excellent shower – sparkling). Storage varied from cabin to cabin; our Superior Twin Cabin had plenty: a wardrobe with hanging space and five shelves, a bedside cabinet, bureau and bathroom cabinet. We heeded the advice to bring luggage in soft bags – hard cases would be difficult to stow underneath the cabin bunks.

Mealtimes are a casual, sociable affair. Whilst on some boat and bike tours guests are allocated a seat for the week, dining was far less informal on the Magnifique. As there were only two of us, we dined with different guests each night; however, most groups tended to keep the same seats for each mealtime.

Dinner consisted of three hearty courses; fear not that you’ll go hungry. I assure you, for every calorie we hoped we might burn off from our daily cycling, we ate double thanks to Chef Raymond’s delicious and creative cooking. The final evening’s barbeque was a wonderful surprise – dining alfresco in the warm summer sun, freshly prepared salads served buffet style, tender steaks perfectly grilled. All but one of the 7 nights are catered, and we decided as a group which night we’d eat off the boat – usually Antwerp or Bruges.

The breakfast buffet was usually served around 8am, continental style with cereals, yoghurts, fruits and freshly baked breads. Hot scrambled eggs, bacon or sausages were often but not always available. If you’ve a sweet tooth try hagelslag a typical Dutch topping much like chocolate hundreds and thousands which you pour liberally on to buttered toast. You’d make your packed lunch at breakfast too, helping yourself to the selection of hams, cheeses and rolls along with a drink carton and snack wrapped in a paper bag.

We were given a complimentary drink with dinner on the first night after which alcoholic drinks are available from the bar: Jupiler Pilsner and Leffe Blonde on tap (€2), and a selection of wines and spirits (€2.50). Drinks are placed on a cabin tab, which you settle at the end of your stay (in cash, there are no card facilities on board). Tea, coffee and hot chocolate were complimentary until 4pm.

It’s worth noting that although there is Wi-Fi on board with 50mb data free each day, it runs on a mobile connection which was mostly non-existent and patchy when available; a good excuse to pack away the laptop or tablet and grab a book instead. Or, as we were lucky enough to do, discover the hidden talents of fellow guests. I enjoyed a portraiture class with an American-artist based in Barcelona, a mini-manicure in a pop-up nail bar with the youngest female passenger, aged 11 from Chicago, and enjoyed a wonderful display of highland dancing on our final evening courtesy of light-footed guests from Aberdeen. (I shan’t mention the dance moves as the evening progressed to Oops Upside Your Head, which took Tom quite by surprise, describing it later as “a strange memory of lying in a row on the floor pretending to be in a canoe”.)

People of the World

I’ve always considered myself a slightly more independent traveller. The thought of being herded around as a group, anxiously following an upturned umbrella held by an overly enthusiastic guide has never appealed. I don’t know what it is about the anxiety of looking like a tourist when I’m in a new place. To me it feels like a big flashing sign above my head that says ‘I’m an outsider, I don’t know where I am, please feel free to rip me off!’

Our newly-acquainted companions from Adelaide, Australia felt the same. They’d converted to organised active holidays around five years ago, and they too weren’t keen on the idea of being herded around, but after experiencing a guided cycling holiday before, and coming back for more, it was a comforting early sign. Phew. It wasn’t going to be that kind of guided tour!

The dynamic of a group of strangers all getting on is of course more luck than rocket science. However it did help that we actually had a rocket scientist on board, along with an artist, a helicopter charterer, an antiques dealer and a veterinary surgeon. There was never a shortage of interesting stories, and luckily for our group, laughter (fellow companions if you’re reading this, a sincere and heartfelt thank you, officially, for making the week so very special). We parted with enthusiastic musings of another cycling holiday in Europe together.

Time for Tea, Art And Tales of Folklore

Cities and towns were mostly explored on foot (with the exception of Ghent on day five, when we cycled into the city centre with two free hours to sightsee on our own), usually during morning or afternoon coffee breaks. Sometimes stopping in a quaint town square, often with a delightful bakery (De Bourgondier in Damme was a particular favourite), or independently run coffee shops such as Theeschenkerijwatertanden in Jaarsveld on day one which wouldn’t be out of place in a West London suburb.

The other opportunity to sightsee was during the optional after-dinner guided walk. Wherever we were Tom’s wonderfully-animated and imaginatively-detailed tales brought alive the surroundings. From the legend of mythical giant Druon Antigoon slain in Antwerp to the mermaid captured by fisherman from Damme, immortalised on a number of weathervanes in Zwin, we simply wouldn’t have enjoyed the places we visited purely by reading about them from a guidebook. Without him, we’d have also been pronouncing cities incorrectly too. Ghent is not in fact a short single syllable, but more guttural (“ghhheeHHHNT!”) and replaces the ‘oooo’ in Bruges with a roll of the ‘r’ and add an ‘ahh’ – “Brugg-ahh!”).

If there was just one place of interest I could visit, I’d choose the Cathedral of our Lady, Antwerp (or, if you want to practice your Dutch, Onze-Lieve-Vrouwekathedraal). One of the most impressive Gothic structures in Europe, building began in 1352 and took 170 years, and although it was never as such ‘completed’, it opened for worship in 1521. It’s home to an incredible collection of original sixteenth- and seventeenth-century works by Flemish Masters including Massys and Floris, commissioned originally by the city’s guilds to decorate the cathedral’s altars. Most notably, the art collection includes four Baroque masterpieces by Rubens, including the Raising of the Cross. It costs €3 to get in.

The only thing we might have done differently? Add on two nights in Amsterdam pre-tour rather than just the one we booked. With a delayed flight of 172 minutes from London Gatwick to Amsterdam Schiphol, our day of sightseeing in Amsterdam ended up as a few hours of ‘night-seeing’ before boarding the Magnifique the following afternoon.

We chose not to book any post-tour nights to stay in Bruges as the itinerary included two nights’ stay in the West Flanders capital. We’d never been to this stunning city, but there was the perfect amount of time to explore this compact city, steeped in medieval heritage, intricate canals and historic buildings built into the city’s waterways.

Our train back to London by Eurostar was scheduled to leave at 7pm (allow an hour by train from Bruges to Brussels au Midi, €6.40 one way). We were able to leave our bags on the boat and enjoy Bruges all day. If the weather’s fair try Juliette for brunch and then escape the crowds. We relaxed peacefully in Astrid Park, a beautiful secluded space with ornate bandstand and manicured gardens on the grounds of a former Franciscan monastery.

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Freedom Treks - Amsterdam Forum

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It might help if you told us which company.

http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/

http://www.freedomtreks.co.uk/

Company... Freedom Treks, as posted as subject. thanks

Steve ftw you can be quite unfriendly at times.

I don't need to 'google' it, I am booked and have read all the garb, I was just merely interested if anyone on here had actually been on one of these holidays and what they thought. Only being conversational... no need to bite!

Globetrotter - I believe steve was taking the mick out of me not picking up the name of the company from the thread title rather than anything you wrote.

that would be correct brian, tks

I should add that I fully deserved it!

you dinged me once or twice brian...payback!!!

I am thinking of booking a cycling tour with Freedom Treks and wondered if you had done your trip in Holland with them and what they were like ?

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• canal tour - best time of day and which Jack? yesterday
• Multigenerational Trip Report for 2.5 days in mid-April yesterday
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• Dam Square yesterday
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Amsterdam Hotels and Places to Stay

• Schiphol - Arriving and departing, Transfers, Layovers and Luggage storage.
• What is there to see and do?
• How do I use public transport?
• What should a visitor AVOID in Amsterdam?
• How can I see Amsterdam from the water?
• KEUKENHOF. All you need to know about visiting
• Overview of Discount Cards
• SIM card info for NL & Europe
• Using the Loo/WC/Restroom in Amsterdam
• Eating Gluten Free in Amsterdam
• Biking in Waterland
• Biking with teens in and around Amsterdam

Freedom Treks

www.freedomtreks.co.uk

Freedom Treks has been offering cycling holidays in Europe since 2003. The company began life as 2 Wheel Treks and changed its name to Freedom Treks in 2007.

In 2011 the company became part of Ski Safari Ltd. which has been offering tailor-made skiing holidays since 1996. Freedom Treks and Ski Safari operate from the same offices close to the beach in sunny Hove.

Land of Lakes and Castles

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Tour Operator:  Freedom Treks

Self-Guided

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  Tour Operator   Freedom Treks

Step back in time on a steam train and steam boat | Pine forests, green fields & sparkling lakes

Start this tour in stunning Stockholm, a city built on 14 islands and connected by 57 bridges, before heading South and exploring a wonderful mix of countryside, stately homes, and coastal villages. The cycling is along country lanes, through forests, meadows and past lakes and is undulating in parts.

Stop to swim in the glistening lakes or in clear Baltic waters whilst enjoying views of the ocean and the endless islands, visit old manor houses with impressive gardens and explore idyllic villages and towns with narrow streets full of colourful wooden houses. Enjoy the peace and a little part of Europe yet to be fully discovered.

Stockholm Archipelago

  6   days   (Bike: 3 days)

  93   km   (~ 31 km  per day)

Semi-Supported

Thousands of islands formed in the Ice Age, idyllic villages and fresh air characterise this beautiful part of Sweden.

The city of Stockholm, built on 14 islands and connected by 57 bridges, is a stunning starting place with its cobbled streets, medieval façades and squares and buzzing atmosphere. Leave the city life behind and hop from island to island on ferries and cycle through idyllic villages with colourful, wooden houses and beautifully preserved ancient churches.

Enjoy the peace of ancient forests and the solitude of white sandy beaches and nature reserves. In between the cycling, stop off to take refreshing dips at sparkling lakes or in the Baltic Sea and marvel at the natural wonder of this amazing archipelago.

• Narrow cobbled streets and colourful buildings
• Ferry rides amongst the endless archipelago
• Forests, sparkling lakes & wild roaming deer
• White sandy beaches and fresh seafood

While great care has been taken to show full and correct tour details, unfortunately transcription errors do occur and, although we continually seek to eliminate these, we apologise for any mistakes. Plans or bookings should not be made exclusively based on information shown on this website but must be confirmed with the tour operator.

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| May 2, 2024 | By: Anthony Pascale 105 comments so far

“Whistlespeak”

Star Trek: Discovery Season 5, Episode 6 – Debuted Thursday, May 2, 2024 Written by Kenneth Lin & Brandon Schultz Directed by Chris Byrne

A classic Trek setup delivers a solid episode exploring character arcs and big ideas.

Hey, I’m in this episode too!

WARNING: Spoilers below!

“The most important thing is to work in harmony”

Picking up on the clue they nabbed in the previous episode, Paul and the geek squad run into a science wall deciphering the simple vial of water so the captain suggests they try cultural analysis instead before she pops off to the mysterious Infinity Room. Kovich tells her that another ship is tracking Moll and L’ak, and the Disco has to stay on task for the Progenitor Tech. He does offer a bit of help, providing a list (on actual paper!) of all the scientists from Vellek’s team. Returning to the science lab the team quickly sorts out which scientist left the water clue, it was a Denobulan named Dr. Kreel who designed rain-making weather towers. A bit more detective work narrows things down to an arid world on an old Denobulan trade route and presto shroomo, they arrive at Planet Helem’no. The good news is they found one of Kreel’s weather towers. The bad news: the tower is surrounded by some “weird energy” preventing scans… and a pre-warp society. The captain flexes her xenoanthropology, revealing Helem’nites have three gender identities and no concept of class status; sounds like just the kind of place a Denobulan would party. Tilly is tagged to join on the field trip and so it’s good ol’ alien disguise time!

On the planet, they have a bit of a hike to get to the tower so they walk and talk about Tilly’s new life as a teacher at Starfleet Academy, where she is concerned one of her students is thinking of leaving. Soon enough they follow some “whistlepseak” (title alert!) leading to a group of pilgrims, only to witness one collapse due to spending too much time in the dust storms. Michael and Tilly struggle over that old Prime Directive, but the local woman ends up being saved by High Priest Ohvahz and his cool “sound cure,” which has the surprise side effect of knocking Michael out. She wakes up to find Tilly making friends with the priest’s kid Ravah who is super excited to get to the temple at the high summit, which is actually an 8-century-old Denobulan weather machine. Shhh. There is a traditional “Journey” race with the winner getting the honor to enter the temple and so Michael and Tilly sign up as a way in to search for the clue. Ravah signs up too, but priest dad is suspiciously not into the idea. Tilly encourages them, seeing the same kind of ambition she admires in her cadets. Michael takes a surreptitious sidebar to talk to Rayner and the gang on the Disco. Adira discovered more old (and broken down) weather towers and this last one is about to fritz out too. This fun day trip just turned into one of those “everyone is going to die if we don’t fix it” kind of things.

Why am I getting a sense this is no “fun run.”

“Let’s go meet the gods together”

Meanwhile on Discovery, Culber is still feeling a bit off. He decides to get counseling from a holo grief program based on his own abuela, who was known to dabble in the spiritual. He is looking for answers to what’s been happening to him since he merged with a Trill , but grandmother reminds him she was also a doctor, suggesting he stop trying to examine his soul before examining his body. So he grabs his hubby and they head to sickbay because “nothing is as romantic as a neural scan.” Aww. All Paul can detect is Hugh’s brain is normal, and of course “handsome.” Adorable. Culber was hoping for more, revealing ever since Trill he feels “more connected” to something big, but he just doesn’t know what to do it about. Is someone about to meet a Koala ?

Michael has a curious chat with the cured woman from earlier talking about how she really misses her old friend who won the last big race. Like priest dad, she suggests there are other ways to show devotion besides participating in the Journey ritual. Hmm. The race begins with the sucking of a cube that parches the competitors as they head up a course lined with water bowls, which they can’t drink without being disqualified. After spotting some mutated moss, Michael leaves the race to find the radiation-leaking control panel. Eventually, Tilly and Ravah are the only two left, both tripping big-time with dehydration. The ritual now calls for carrying water bowls, which seems particularly cruel. Ravah drops theirs and Dad is elated, but Tilly steps up and shares her water with her new little protégé, and they continue to the high summit together. Teamwork! They tie up and both get to enter the temple. As Ravah takes in the spiritual moment, Tilly uses her cool new retinal tricorder but isn’t finding any clue. Priest dad shows up looking miserable, telling the winners their sacrifice will bless Helem’No for many seasons. Sacri-whatnow?

Upon reflection, fire was not a good call for the vacuum chamber.

“Beliefs can evolve”

As the walls are about to literally close in on Tilly, Michael gets some tech support from Adira to fix the weather system’s control panel, which is in the middle of the forest for some reason. The ensign is still feeling out of sorts since letting the time spider on board (not their fault) but Rayner rallies them so after some technobabble, the system is fixed. Tilly is now trapped in a vacuum chamber and can’t be beamed out so Michael breaks the Prime Directive and beams into the room right next door where Priest Dad is hanging out. With the air escaping, Ravah is now having second thoughts as Michael goes all in with their father, revealing his whole world is a lie so he should just open the door. Yeah, that didn’t work so Michael makes contact through the impenetrable wall using her subcutaneous communicator and starts humming a song she hears from Ravah that their mother used to sing. That gets Ohvahz’s attention and with “I am not a god but maybe I was sent here by one,” he opens his mind to a new reality… and the door. By this time Ravah has collapsed but Culber’s medical team can now beam in for the save. Heisenberg be praised!

As Culber and his team work everyday miracles, Ohvahz takes in the wonder of a hologram of his planet as he learns aliens called Denobulans saved them centuries ago. Now it’s his job to keep their technology working… no prayer required. Michael plays agnostic on whether this big reveal disproves the divine, leaving him with the thorny issue of getting his society to stop the pointless (yet popular) sacrifices. As Dad and Ravah reunite, Tilly has big news, showing Michael wall markings matching those on that persnickety water vial clue. They are in the wrong tower, but the next map piece and clue is in tower #5. Back on the ship, Book is sulking for not getting picked for the fun away mission, doing what dudes do… playing video games – technically shuttle combat simulation, but it looked just like Asteroids . Culber joins to cheer him up with a snack and to find a new outlet to talk about his burgeoning “spiritual awakening.” The former courier offers solace saying it’s okay for Hugh to have a part of his life he doesn’t share with Paul, while Book inadvertently shares how much he misses what he had with Michael. As the boys share a nice moment, Tilly and Michael have one too as they put the fourth piece of the map in place and ponder the big picture, and how each of the scientists seems to be sending them a message through time, warning of the “massive responsibility” of the Progenitor tech. Before they work all that out, the word comes that Moll and L’ak have been found. Black Alert!

Wait ’till I tell you about Denobulan marriages, it’s going to blow your mind.

Faith of the heart

“Whistlespeak” is a decent mid-season episode that takes a moment to pause and reflect on the season’s themes and impact on the characters. The pacing was slower by design, giving time to take in the location, performances, and character development. And they threw in the world-ending stakes to keep it interesting. Like other season 5 entries, the premise is classic Trek with an actual visit to a strange new world. Exploring a pre-warp society and coming into conflict with the Prime Directive, evokes episodes like “Who Watches the Watchers,” “The Paradise Syndrome,” and many others. You may not even notice it but the facial markings and even Tilly’s hairstyle were added as they beamed down, a subtle 32nd transporter tech upgrade to having the doctor handle alien disguises. It’s always hard to come up with a new culture on Star Trek but keeping it simple worked for “Whistlespeak.” The events on Helem’No were also a bit of a microcosm of the season itself, a race to receive the grace of the gods is not so different than the USS Discovery’s race to find the Progenitor’s tech. Like the Progenitors, the Denobulans played God with this planet but there is a warning about even good intentions can have unintended consequences. Confronting the Prime Directive — one of the core tenets of Federation philosophy — isn’t so different than how the High Priest had to evolve his worldview. The season’s focus on connection was nicely woven throughout the various plots and stories with a strong emphasis on the recurring theme of exploring spirituality without getting too heavy-handed, showing respect, and learning lessons from different points of view, which is all very Star Trek.

This was a great episode for Mary Wiseman as she showed off all the familiar aspects of Tilly from her dry wit to her whip smarts, with the season’s added layer of her growing into a mentor figure, such as how she immediately bonded with Ravah, ably played by guest star June LaPorte. And once again this final season reminds us where it all started, bringing back some of the Michael/Tilly bonding seen in the first couple of seasons, including a bit of running together as they used to do around the USS Discovery. Extended scenes with Wiseman and Sonequa Martin-Green have been missed. But as this was a Tilly-focused episode, the show could have held back some of its tendencies, giving her more of the “aha” moments to move the plot along. Burnham will also be the hero, but share the character wealth. Wilson Cruz also stood out as we explored his character’s spiritual awakening. This storyline has been playing along nicely and seems to be setting something up. Simple things like paying off namedrops of his abuela show how much Discovery has improved on layering in these season-long character arcs.

Tilly is concerned about her listing on ratemyprofessor.com.

Reach for any star

While the intriguing big Breen reveal from the previous episode was set aside for this week, the search for clues structure continues to allow for these nice little episodic adventures. It’s always great to meet a new culture and expand on the canon. Once again the season doesn’t shy away from utilizing franchise lore, in this case bringing in a few bits of Denobulan society through Dr. Kreel. However, after we got to (sort of) meet the first two Progenitor research scientists in episodes 1 and 3, the show is missing an opportunity to continue that by introducing the others. Instead of just talking about Denobulans, it would have been a treat to actually get to see Dr. Kreel (and Dr. Cho in the last episode, too), and that could have also helped sell some of the episode’s themes. On the other hand, it’s always great to get to learn more about the enigmatic Dr. Kovich, with David Cronenberg continuing to intrigue us with more tidbits about his character who has a penchant for old legal pads. This and his “Infinity Room,” all feel like it is leading somewhere and hopefully this series doesn’t wrap up without finally explaining what is his deal.

Of course, the episode also has some of the usual frustrations. Discovery needs to find some more creative ways to explain away when and how and where the 32nd technology doesn’t work. It seems every episode has some weird energy field preventing the transporters from working so that the episode can progress at the desired pace, specifically a walking pace. That being said, the retinal tricorders were a nice new bit of tech, although perhaps not discreet enough if someone checks out what’s happening with one of your eyes. And while it may only be the “Prime Suggestion” to many Trek captains, it still isn’t clear if the season plot “Red Directive” supersedes the Prime Directive, but for obvious reasons, it’s not likely Burnham will face the same kind of tribunal as (formerly) Captain Rayner. The disruption to this society was pretty profound and they probably should have noted that Starfleet would be back to check in to make sure they didn’t just kick off a religious war. By the way, why didn’t the Denobulans ever check in after leaving all their tech running? These quibbles are not episode breakers but are the usual kinds of things that Discovery doesn’t seem interested in tying up, and perhaps they are a bit nitpicky, but that too is a Trek tradition. Finally, this may not be a nitpick, but the crew seems a bit blasé in how they treat the slowly-assembling map, which seems to be left around various parts of the Discovery. Like every hero ship before, the USS Discovery has been boarded by the bad guys on several occasions, so maybe this is setting up for a coming heist.

The most important thing in the Federation makes for a nice conversation piece.

Final thoughts

This (dare I say) “filler” episode was a solid outing that delivered some classic Star Trek to Discovery . With four out of five pieces of the map assembled in six episodes, it feels like we are making progress without getting sidetracked. The pivot in Season 5 continues to be finally finding the sweet spot in episodic adventures, serialized plot, and character development.

Only four more, y’all.

• For the third episode in a row, Doug Jones is not credited. Saru is confirmed to appear in at least the finale episode, so he will be back.
• The actual whistlespeak heard in the episode was performed by professional whistler Molly Lewis .
• Michael studied xenolinguistics on Vulcun under a Dr. T’Prasi.
• Denobulans use silver iodine to make it rain on Denobula, which is used today in cloud seeding .
• The walls of the Denobulan vacuum chamber were made of solid Tritanium , which was commonly used by Starfleet in the 24th century, but perhaps the thickness prevented beaming.
• The (replicated) Culber family Mofongo con pollo al ajillo is a traditional Puerto Rican dish with rice, chicken, and garlic.
• The “sound cure” bowls used by the Hilem’No are like so-called Tibetan “ singing bowls ” which have been used in the modern era for “ music therapy .”
• The sound wave pattern shown during the “sound cure” is a real phenomenon called cymatics .
• The weather control interface was in the Denobulan language , first seen on  Star Trek: Enterprise .
• If Kovich’s 21st century legal pad is made of acid-free paper, then it could indeed survive for centuries .
• Vellek (Romulan)
• Jinaal Bix (Trill)
• Carmen Cho (Terran)
• Hitoroshi Kreel (Denobulan)
• Marina Derex (Betazoid)… obviously named in honor of Marina Sirtis .

Four more?… for you maybe.

More to come

Every Friday, the TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek Podcast  covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe and discusses the latest episode. The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts ,  Spotify ,  Pocket Casts ,  Stitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.

The fifth and final season of  Discovery debuted with two episodes on Thursday, April 4 exclusively on Paramount+  in the U.S., the UK, Switzerland, South Korea, Latin America, Germany, France, Italy, Australia, and Austria.  Discovery  will also premiere on April 4 on Paramount+ in Canada and will be broadcast on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada. The rest of the 10-episode final season will be available to stream weekly on Thursdays. Season 5 debuts on SkyShowtime in select European countries on April 5.

Keep up with news about the  Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com .

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It’s a good stand-alone ep. It proves you don’t need bad guys chasing for the same relics. I realized how unnecessary they are.

I echo that sentiment, big-time!

The best Trek is without “bad guys”. Always has been. Too bad modern writers don’t get it. This was a gem of an episode.

Great episode i really enjoyed the slow pacing of it and i always like a episode involving a trip to a pre warp society.

It’s great that they have gotten 4 of the 5 pieces of the puzzle already and not leaving it to the penultimate episode.

I do agree with the review that it would be nice to see the rest of the scientists and i hope when they do find the Progenitor Tech we find get some form of flashback with the scientists finding the tech.

I really like it when NuTrek references Enterprise.

What do you mean, exactly? I didn’t get get it

Possibly he’s referring to the Denobulans.

This is like the trill episode. A lot of other stuff happens with a minimal plot advancement. I’m ok with that, if it’s interesting. If you’re going to recycle and re-use tropes, it needs to be interesting. This was largely, not. I found it more interesting than the Trill episode, and I loved the delivery of the message Burnham gives at the end. That why I found this episode better than that one. But still wasn’t all that great.

I was bored rigid. This is what happens when you take 45 minutes of plot and stretch it out over 10 episodes.

I finally started watching Slow Horses on the weekend – and ended up binging all three seasons this week.

Six 40ish-minute episodes a season, no filler, complex plots and solid characters, writing and acting.

I wish Trek could pull that off.

Great show.

This is my main problem with it, yes. I loved episodes 1 and 2, but from after that it started going downhill for precisely that reason: because there’s not much of a story here. So we get a whole lot of filler scenes, scenes about people being unsure of themselves (this must be the most emotionally fragile crew in the history of Starfleet–it’s getting kind of ridiculous at this point), and minimal plot advancement. Meanwhile, all the focus is on Action Hero Michael every single episode, with Saru, Stamets, the entire bridge crew, and Reno doing almost nothing all season. Tilly has had more to do this season, which is great. But other than Michael, Book, Culber, and Saru, everyone else has done almost nothing since season two. I really wanted to like this season, and when it started I very much did. But it’s going nowhere fast.

You nailed it.

Wow you said everything I been thinking too. The season is feeling more and more flat and the characters outside a few of them just has nothing to do.

Started off great but halfway through now and I’m getting bored again because it doesn’t feel compelling enough.

Yeah, they took what might have been a solid four-hour story and turned it into ten hours, and they gave us two entirely lackluster villains. One thing that has been a big problem on Trek for a while now–on Discovery, as well as on Picard–has been utterly forgettable and boring villains. Not one of them has really stood out to me on either show, other than Lorca.

This has been the problem with almost all of these. I go back to, if you’re going to deviate a bit, it’s ok.. but it better be engaging.. better be interesting. With Star Trek, you really have to make the theme feel original. None of that happens here. I don’t have a problem with what they’re trying to do.. I have a problem with the execution of it. And that’s the same problem with most of Discovery for me.

agree. I wonder what the financial upside would be if they had the courage to write the main story they want to tell and film it. This should be the benefit of the streaming platform model. If it’s 5 episodes, it’s five episodes but – if they are a great five episodes, wouldn’t that be better for the franchise than 10 of mediocre quality?

Pssst… not sure if you are aware of this or not. But that was the whole premise of the show from the start. It was… and is… about Michael. It was never going to be a cast show. It is a show about Michael. And that is why she is predominately the focus in the episodes.

Bit behind on this series and just watched episodes 2 and 3 this evening., but Culber had a big part in episode 3 in my opinion. Also it seems to me that Captain Rayner has a big part. It isn’t just the Kirk, Bone, Spock show to me with Discovery this season.

This sounds lovely and wonderful! I think I’ll finally break down and join Paramount+ instead of waiting for the DVD release! (And I’m a Tilly fan, too :)

My least liked episode of the season. It was a filler episode without any meaningful filler.

Yeah they found the next clue in the end but it went sideways at times with Tilly and Culber having some kind of personal crisis that went nowhere. .In my opinion, it wouldn’t be noticed if this episode were accidentally skipped. It is a standalone episode that stands still.

Maybe this show is better if the seasons are watched in one sitting?

Hopefully the next episode will advance the plot more than this one did.

To my happy surprise, I enjoyed Tilly’s involvement a lot. I don’t always like her. But here, I thought she worked well. The rest of the episode? Pointless.

So Betazed is the location for both a red herring AND a real clue? Moll and L’ak are going to be pissed they missed it. I mean, they had to have missed it or they would have had no motivation whatsoever to return to Lyrek.

I think that’s more because the clues left for the Trill episode pointed toward the Trill and not the Betazed clue though too. Although, yeah I’d be irritated too.

Anyone else find it interesting though that whatever they’re making they are finding the pieces right in the order they appear in the circular puzzle?

Seems intentional in-universe; the only way to not start at the beginning would be to luck into a random clue and somehow see it for what it is without the Romulan journal providing context and the official starting point.

Does anybody know why Doug Jones is absent for so much of this season? Was he off making a movie or something? It seems odd that he is not actually in the series that he is one of the main stars of…

This season is peculiar because of the missing regular cast, hard to believe they couldn’t get commitments from the actors unless the show simply couldn’t use them or didn’t want them. I suspect it has something to do with controlling the budget or other contractual issues.

It’s peculiar, I agree. Discovery has become the Michael-Book-Culber show, with most of the characters under-utilized and ignored. That, for me, has been its greatest failing in the past couple seasons, but especially in this one.

Tilly was similarly absent for most of last season. It’s keenly felt because it’s a small cast to begin with. That’s part of my frustration with how they never really promoted any of the bridge crew to be a more impactful and fleshed-out character. There’s been plenty of time to do it.

Doug Jones posted that he was out for most of this season due to Hocus Pocus 2.

Thanks for the information, William. I was going to say it was weird that he chose to be absent from a big chunk of the last season of his show, but then remembered that he did not know it was the last season.

Seems like Hocus Pocus 2 came out waaay before this and that wouldn’t have been filming anywhere close to each other – dates in Wikipedia indicates HP2 was done filming by the time Disco 5 was even ordered

But – time is an illusion. Tea time, doubly so.

This is his Twitter post: https://twitter.com/actordougjones/status/1784136793753042992

He was promoting Hocus Pocus 2 while S5 was being filmed.

That’s not how contracts work, though. If they wanted him for episodes of Trek, he’d have had to skip the press tour. This means they let him out of any contract he had, presumably; which in turn likely means they were find with paying him for fewer episodes.

I agree on the statement about how contracts work and it probably was a cost saving measure for them. There’s also the possibility that Doug Jones original contract for Hocus Pocus included sequel clauses and promotional requirements.

This current era of Trek though does seem willing to let their players go do other things. Saru in Season 5 with Hocus Pocus, Tilly in Season 4 with her play, Bryce for his BET show.

It was a descent episode. And since you guys were discussing what a ‘filler’ episode is on you and Laurie’s (amazing) podcast, I too wanted to say: this is a classic filler episode. Nothing really happened but it was injoyable on its own. Funny enough, I give this one an enjoyable 7, where last week was a frustrating 7.

Some of the repeating things are getting annoying:

• Michael headlining EVERY episode.
• Transporters not working.
• Talking about characters but not showing them (at least here it was an unknown).

I still don’t understand what they’re trying to do with Culber and his so-called spiritual awakening. Like you said, it must be going somewheren, because, what else is the point. I’m juist not seeing (or getting) it yet.

I’m shocked you didn’t mention the perfectly machine-made wooden water bowls by the way. That one bugged me, for such a primitive people.

And I cringed at the Marina tribute, because it was just too on the nose as a literal first name of a person.

By the way, regarding Kovich: there might be a chance he’s from the department of temporal whatsit. Although not the same suit as temporal agents on SNW season 2, it is about the same color.

Yeah, I’ve always assumed Kovich could time-travel, so that’s how he gets the paper.

Correction: The episode happened in and around tower #3, the clue was in tower #5

I only mention that because I read somewhere how nitpicking is part of Trek … :)

I guess the fact that the winner of the race was sacrificed was supposed to be a surprise? When the priest tried to talk his child out of it, and the person Burnham saved talked about how the friend who’d won the race she ran when she was young was dead, I was sure that the winner would be sacrificed. If it was obvious to ME, how did Burnham and Tilly miss it?

I know Burnham decided to break the Prime Directive for what she thought was a good reason, but I’m amazed that she decided to show the priest his planet from space. Wait, once it’s broken, you can go whole hog? There’s no attempt to maybe limit the damage?

I’m an atheist because of Occam’s Razor, and I’m always uncomfortable when Star Trek tries to get spiritual. I grew up on Kirk’s unmasking false gods and tearing down computers who pretend to be gods, so NuTrek’s careful tiptoeing around gods always makes me long for a little Jim Kirk. Apollo’s just an alien with an extra organ in his chest, damn it! :-)

I didn’t even like it when DS9 turned the franchise more toward a distinctly non-Roddenberrian spirituality, much less when Discovery does it. That said, I enjoyed this episode.

The extended impact of Culber’s experience on Trill could have played out in a very cliche way, so at least this is different. I suspect his “new outlook” will have a place in the resolution of the Progenitor tech. It’s also sort of retcon of his rebirth, which never really was “used” properly. So far, I am liking this… and I definitely come to Trek to should down alien gods!

Mankind has no need for gods we find the one quite adequate Captain Kirk

McCOY: We were speculating …’Is God really out there?’ KIRK: Maybe He’s not out there, Bones. Maybe He’s right here …in the human heart. …Spock?

SPOCK: I wish we could have examined that belief of his more closely. It seems illogical for a sun worshiper to develop a philosophy of total brotherhood. Sun worship is usually a primitive superstition religion.

UHURA: I’m afraid you have it all wrong, Mister Spock, all of you. I’ve been monitoring some of their old-style radio waves, the empire spokesman trying to ridicule their religion. But he couldn’t. Don’t you understand? It’s not the sun up in the sky. It’s the Son of God.

KIRK: Caesar and Christ. They had them both. And the word is spreading only now.

MCCOY: A philosophy of total love and total brotherhood.

Kirk or Sisko wouldn’t have asked the dad to open the door. They would have blasted it with their phaser.

Could Kovich be a Supervisor ala Gary Seven and Tallinn?

I was wondering – or a Q?

I think he’s a time agent. His suit is different than the time agent in SNW but basically the same dark grey.

Technically he can’t be a time agent. They said in Season 3 that there were temporal accords that prevented those types of personnel in Starfleet.

Future Guy from ENT

He managed a staples in 2004.

Two ‘meh’ ones in a row. Who Watches the Watchers this is NOT!

Sure, It’s great to see a pre-warp prime directive story again and I liked that Burnham revealed herself in the end to save Tilly and the girl. That’s always a Trek trope and I’m trying to think of any episode where they managed to stay completely hidden the whole time. Anyone have any examples?

But this episode just really lacked for me. Not awful just not very interesting either. It tried but just felt pretty flat overall.

As for finding pieces of the progenitor tech, it’s become pretty formulaic now and very little of a challenge. The clues are all easily found and it’s literally like putting together a Jinga puzzle. It just feels too easy. And Moll and Lak doesn’t feel threatening at all. They are just there so they can have some conflict in the story but it also feels so meh, similar to the Book and Tarka’s ‘chase’ last season.

I know they are trying and want to give us this grand adventure story but it’s still Discovery falling back to the same issues again and again. And this show keeps stretching five minutes of plot into an hour story. I wish I could care more about Culber’s ‘spiritual journey’ but yeah I just don’t.

Anyway four more episodes. Trying to stay positive but sadly I think I’m just back for the show to end. Hopefully things will finally start to ramp up and the Breen becomes a bigger part of the story.

Some great acting and character moments happened throughout this episode. But I was amused that violating the Prime Directive is just a matter of paperwork now.

I also always wonder how Michael and Tilly communicated with the people on the planet. Of course they had their universal translators and could understand them, but the people they were talking to didn’t have them.

I was surprised by the Prime Directive being paperwork too, especially after Rayner seemed to lose his command over what they were considering a Prime Directive issue.

yeah, the prime directive stuff is eye rollingly bad. It’s really there for the exact reasons they violate it in this episode. It’s stupid.

That has always been a problem with the universal translator on Trek. The concept works fine over a comms channel. But as soon as people are in direct communication the concept (as presented on all the shows) kind of falls apart, especially if only one side of the conversation even has such a technology.

I rewatched the Enterprise Incident a few weeks ago where Kirk sneaks onto the Romulan ship and fully disguise as a Romulan but oddly talks to everyone in English. Seems like that would be the biggest giveaway he’s really not a Romulan lol.

Yeah it’s always been a problem from the very beginning. The later shows have tried to find ways to explain it a little better but I don’t remotely buy you can just pretend you sound like a native speaker when A. You just met a race for the first time and B. That they wouldn’t know you’re speaking through some device.

Forget pretending it can just deduce an an entire new language after hearing a couple of words. I don’t buy that regardless the century they are in and it happens on every show.

Sure it’s a stretch that a computer can decipher an unknown language after a few words. But at least it’s technically easy to swap out audio during the transmission. It falls apart when people talk to each other directly. Unless you assume they have a chip implanted in their brains that intercepts the nerve signals from the ears. Plus another chip in their vocal chords that translates outgoing speech. The universal translator exists so that we as the audience don’t need to read subtitles, the actors don’t need to learn made-up languages and the plot doesn’t have to come to a grinding halt each episode while the characters learn how to communicate. Having the universal translator fail and dedicating an episode to showing how people actually figure out how to communicate is interesting from time to time but the majority of the audience would probably grow tired very quickly if this took up substantial time in every single episode.

Of course I get all of that. I was just agreeing how it sometimes make no sense in the story itself. But it’s all fiction and most of us just accepted it at this point.

I am thoroughly enjoying this season of Disco. Possibly because I am not hunting for anything and everything to criticize. Among other things, I think it is nicely balancing the slower pace of a serialized format while also having more episodic stories. It reminds me a lot of DS9 in this regard without having as many episodes per season to work with.

I am also interested in how well they will explore the topic of spirituality, another commonality with DS9. Although in the end I don’t think DS9 quite succeeded in this because the viewers could just dismiss Bajoran Faith as ignorance of the “true” nature of “The Prophets” as “wormhole aliens.”

Looking forward to see how it all turns out, though I wish this were not the final season as the series really seems to have hit its stride. But all good things…

I thought it was “ok.” Definitely tried to be a more traditional Star Trek episode, but I often feel when Discovery, and to a lesser degree Strange New Worlds, tries to do traditional Trek it just feels shallow. Like they are following a recipe to the letter but not adding any of the zest that really makes it stand out. I was also confused why they made such a big deal of the “whistle speak,” and then have it play almost zero role in the plot. Finally, it was really convenient that Michael and Tilly just happened to arrive at the exact perfect time to join the race to enter the temple. I wish I could master the art of perfect timing so well :-)

I though it was pretty clear that the young woman wanted to become and adult and requested the race because she thought she could beat “foreigners” in the race.

But I also thought it was going to become a battle to the death. They never went that far – only starving their competitors!

Ah, could be. I plan to watch it a second time and will look for that… thanks!

Making the race a battle to the death doesn’t really make sense because the winner of the race was actually going to be sacrificed.

I would like some Saru, Owosekun and Detmer now please.

I’m sure they’ll show back up at the end with a refitted ISS Enterprise.

The music in this episode was outstanding.

Is it now a Star Trek trope to show a member of a pre-warp society a view of their planet from space?

Whistlespeak is about caretaking.

Did this week’s episode begin a deeper, exploration of what this all could really mean? Power? Responsibility? Her trepidation is a nice way to end the episode.

I’m in love with the whole idea of sound as language. I wanted SNW’s musical episode to be totally like what we see in this episode – so it was a nice kick for me to get a taste .

That Denobulan’s name Hitoroshi Kreel….Hoshi Sato. Why do I feel like that might be another Enterprise reference?

47 comments so far. Discovery is quite the barn-burner! ; )

Maybe people are just annoyed by all the whining that people post in here.

People keep saying this and yet so far this has been generally a very positive season so what are we missing??

Even this episode, while more divided there are just as many people who liked it as many who didn’t (and unfortunately I am in the latter personally). Actually I would probably say more liked it than didn’t.

This idea that its been nothing but constant hate this season is not remotely any basis in reality. Most people seems to be more positive than negative over it. The real possibility seems to be many have just stopped caring in general as there is a lack of discussions everywhere online besides here and probably why the lack of postings this season.

I’m not sure what you’re reading, but it’s been nothing but negative comments from season one. People are sick and tired of the same comments over and over again. I know many people have stopped commenting due to this. But would be interesting to see what the site traffic numbers are and to see if the site traffic is gone down or just the comment section. It’s honestly the same people saying the same thing over and over and over… Yawn.

The real strength of this season so far is that they have not teased something they cannot deliver. I have really enjoyed each episode without worrying that the characters were going to do something stupid just for the sake of stuffing the plot with action. Seems pretty sad that they are largely “getting it right” and no one wants to celebrate that.

I literally counted the number of positive vs negative posts in the episode 4 thread when someone suggested this and it was 24 positive posts about an episode vs 3 negative ones.

Go back to the first two episodes of the season. Again it was overwhelmingly positive. Nearly everyone liked those. The outliers were the people who didn’t.

I just counted the number of people who were positive about this episode vs the people who weren’t. And I only counted the ones who directly said they liked or hated it.

The people who said they liked it are 13 people. Now some some of those were mixed feelings for sure but if they said they ultimately liked it then it counts. But half of those considered it outstanding. As for the ones, like me, who didn’t like it are 7 people. So again that’s more people here saying they liked it than didn’t correct? So what am I missing?

Every episode this season there has been way more positive posts than negative overall. Yes I get your bigger point people have been putting down the show since the first season which is definitely true lol but it didn’t stop people from talking about the show in droves for YEARS. And your argument doesn’t hold water this season because most people who are commenting seems to LIKE it, right? The minority comments so far are the people who still thinks the show sucks.

And even the people who don’t they are just giving their opinions about it and not attacking or challenging anyone who DID like it. That’s actually one thing I have been noticing about this season and there isn’t a lot of infighting about the show. Again look at this thread, besides me and you lol, who is arguing about it? There is no big debates or people being triggered. The people who said they liked it aren’t being challenged over it no more than the people who said they hated it.

Isn’t this is what we want on a message board? People being civil and not attacking others? And one such troll was finally banned here a month ago who IRONICALLY kept attacking anyone who was being negative about the show and turning everything into a ridiculous fight in every thread; so that probably has helped the civility here a great deal now he’s gone regardless of your personal thoughts about the show.

So I don’t remotely buy this argument. The reality seems to be a lot of people have just moved on from the show in general. When you look at the level of discussion about the show in its first three seasons vs the last two the gap is very obvious.

Again maybe many people are still watching the show. Unfortunately we don’t have any data on that. But we know how this works when people are passionate for a show on the Internet it’s very very easy to see everywhere.

Picard season 3 is the perfect example. I went and checked how many posts its episode 6 got here (since this episode 6 of this season) and it was 450 posts and that was just a year ago. And people slammed season 2 like no one’s business lol.

I don’t think this season has even gotten that many posts if you combined all the episodes.

I’ve also said this before as well and the show had been off the air for two years now. Yes we’re used to seasons having longer gaps these days but that’s still very long even for today and a lot of people could’ve just moved on or lost interest.

“Again maybe many people are still watching the show. Unfortunately we don’t have any data on that.”

Actually I have to correct myself on that because I forgot Paramount+ is part of the Nielsen ratings for streaming. But I have no idea exactly how in-depth they make it publicly. I only know how well a show is doing here when this site reports it.

And maybe Discovery will enter the top 10 this season. Now let me make this very very very clear, even if it doesn’t it doesn’t mean the show is failing in terms of views obviously. When there are 200 streaming shows these days and many on much bigger sites to boot it’s a miracle for any Trek show to be in the top 10 lol. And those listings are very skewed in my opinion since the only ‘top 10’ list we ever see are original shows. So while I’m happy to see Trek on any top 10 lists it still doesn’t tell us the whole picture just much these shows are truly being viewed.

And Paramount+ still avoids releasing any numbers independently unless a show is huge like some of the Yellowstone spin offs.

“Every episode this season there has been way more positive posts than negative overall.”

Hmm, maybe that’s the real problem and it’s all the negative and bitter haters that just finally left haha.

But don’t worry I still show up as much as possible! 😁

I’m teasing I’m actually enjoying the season for the most part but agree I think most people just lost interest. Obviously the people who always loved it are probably still devotely watching but it is probably the fence sitters and the people who always hated it who ultimately moved on which would make sense.

And I have seen people say they just have no interest to watch the show week to week anymore after being burned every season and just plan to binge it when this season was over. I even remember reading you were thinking of doing that so that could be another issue.

“Isn’t this is what we want on a message board? People being civil and not attacking others? And one such troll was finally banned here a month ago who IRONICALLY kept attacking anyone who was being negative about the show and turning everything into a ridiculous fight in every thread; so that probably has helped the civility here a great deal now he’s gone regardless of your personal thoughts about the show.”

This is really is the biggest irony out of all of this. A lot of these comments section does get inflated when you had people like that guy being triggered all the time, making the same 20 posts a day over anything he didn’t like (how many times did he utter the phrase ‘ROTJ’ in every Picard post 🙄) and literally went on constant tangents how people here were just coming here to drown the boards in hatefests?

Instead that lunatic was removed and ironically this place has been the most relaxing in years lol. The very fact as you pointed out no one is spending time arguing with others over their opinions is another reason there are fewer posts because no one cares anymore lol.

I think everyone just resigned to the fact the show is now done and everyone’s views are baked in so what’s the point arguing over it anymore?

And when you remove the disruptive people who wants to act like insullen babies like that guy and Alpha Predator, REGARDLESS how they feel about a show, good or bad, surprise surprise you get a more civil and balanced discussion and board now.

Yeah … shocking! 😉

“And I have seen people say they just have no interest to watch the show week to week anymore after being burned every season and just plan to binge it when this season was over. I even remember reading you were thinking of doing that so that could be another issue.”

Yes this is possible as well. In fact another member here said they were thinking to do just that after they watched the first episode of the season but didn’t like it.

And yes I too was considering it because of just how bad season 4 felt by the end. I was even thinking of doing the same thing with Picard season 3. But once I heard it was the final season (and Picard was bringing back the TNG cast) it’s no way that would happen. And I don’t know if I would’ve done it regardless because I have zero willpower lol.

I guess I’m just surprised because I really expected the opposite for three big reasons. A. Being the final season of course. B. Being so closely connected to a big and popular TNG episode and C. The early reviews were solid.

So I just thought it was going to be a big party lol. Not at the level of Picard season 3 but at least at the level of SNW.

But instead of a party it feels more like a funeral. Or maybe someone on their death bed is a better morbid term lol. Just sorta here waiting for it to end and not really hyped up about the season.

As far as your last point, agreed. No matter what these boards have been a lot more fun and relaxing to write on.

I have said it before in the past it is really strange the lack of discussion around this season. Outside of this site I also post on TrekCre as you know and Reddit (but under a different handle there) and it’s obvious how much the discussions have fallen off at those places too. It’s not a lot of people at TrekCre so the posts were already less but the more popular stuff like Picard and SNW still got decent traction. It just doesn’t feel the same way with Discovery this year and I post there a few times a week as I do here.

Reddit it’s very obvious though. There are times you can’t even view all the responses because there was so many especially the first few seasons. Now it’s much more manageable.

It is a little disappointing because this will probably be my favorite season (that’s not really hard though lol) and like you I expected to see a lot more debate and discussion considering we’re dealing with such a big storyline.

But I imagine the audience has peaked for this show years ago and it’s just the hardcore mostly watching. There is no hype for it outside the usual places like here.

Good for you. You counted the comments the last couple of episodes. What about all the past seasons? Have you gone back and counted all that? People just don’t want to bother with all that negativity. It’s like the movie BEYOND, a far better movie than INTO DARKNESS. But less people went to see because they felt it would be bad like ID. Same thing here. Because of all the negativity last season in the posts, less people are reading and posting comments. Like I said, would be interesting to see if the traffic on this website reflects the comments. My guess, the same amount are hitting the page but less commenting. And the ones that are commenting, are the same usual suspects. People can’t be bothered reading the toxic comments spewed towards the actors, the writers and the producers. Same old blah blah from the same old people. Yawn.

I’m going to say it again.

A. This is NOT the only place that has less discussions. I keep saying this and it keeps getting ignored lol. This is across the board. A great example is Reddit. It’s easily the biggest Trek board. Until this season most Discovery threads had 600+ posts when an episode review was posted. Now most of them are under 500 which is not horrible but it already tells you a huge gap Discovery has when you compare it to the bigger shows like Picard and SNW which easily goes into the thousands. It’s the same with TrekCre, Trek BBS, etc. The show has less people talking about it these days.

B. Your logic doesn’t make sense because if the more negative posts drove away the more positive posts then why are there still more positive posts?? And literally on every review thread. How do you derive at that conclusion if more people are actually saying nice things about it? Wouldn’t it be the opposite then? Or at least a bigger subset of those posts? Help me out here?

C. I have been saying these boards have been negative since 2009. You just made the point for me with STID. That time was brutal lol. Way worse IMO because there were so many more people at the time.

People go on and on about how much hate Discovery gets here but very few threads ever went into the THOUSANDS of people fighting over it like what happened with STID… for years after it came out.

But you’re also right yes less people discussed Beyond when that came around but I don’t think you can blame that all on STID either. I think people grew tired of those movies in general and Beyond just didn’t grab people on its own (and had a HORRIBLE marketing campaign), hence a big reason why it bombed. I don’t think you can blame this board for that lol. In fact I think less postings was simply an reflection that less people had interest in the movie in general and its box office indicated that.

I’m saying the same thing has happened with Discovery. It’s not just ONE thing. I do agree that the negativity has maybe driven some people away. I also think the show itself has driven people away too for those people really unhappy with the last few seasons. It CAN be both right? Just like what happened with the Kelvin movies.

D. How is it any different than all the derision Picard got in it’s first two seasons? And yet season 3 had the highest number of people posting probably simce STID. And most people seem to think season 2 wasn’t just the worst season of that show or even NuTrek but one of the worst Trek seasons ever.

It didn’t stop anyone talking up season 3 to death and not everyone loved that season either.

You can repeat it until you’re blue in the face. Whether it is hear or on other boards… The same repetitive negative people here are the same repetitive negative people on other boards. People are tired of hearing the same drivel no matter where you go because it’s all the same people.

Do you actually believe that people don’t go to multiple platforms? Come on. People are mean. People are arrogant. People are negative. It’s repetitive drivel.

My logic makes perfect sense. And I would put money on that the traffic on the site hasn’t dropped. The articles are still good. Fans want to read them. But people just don’t want to deal with the same crap all the time. How many times does Emily have to say how much she hates nostalgia and legacy before you are sick of hearing it. How many time does Lorna have to slam Martin-Green’s acting and “whisper speaking” before you get sick of it? And the list goes on. Blah blah blah over and over.

I’m going to repeat myself. How come the last season of Picard didn’t get the same problem? You can admit season 2 was blasted as much as season 4 of Discovery was right? I think even worse. It didn’t stop anyone from talking about season 3 in droves.

And I seem to recall others still repeating themselves who still hated that show too.

As far as Discovery It’s probably a show that has been falling in the ratings awhile, hence it’s cancellation before season 5 even aired. My guess has always been by the end of season four a lot of people had simply stopped watching it because there were people, some on this very board, said they stopped watching it lol.

Again it CAN be both things right? Yes you can be right but what’s weird is you seem to acknowledge a lot of the negative feedback but you don’t acknowledge that maybe many of those same people have simply stopped posting or watching on their own as well.

It IS possible right?

I mean the show is now halfway over. There has not been a single article ANYWHERE discussing the metrics of the show. Not one press release by Paramount that the show is hitting any admirable numbers even if they don’t tell us what they are. This is the one frustrating thing about the streaming era.

And maybe it’s really doing great but the deafening silence is telling.

So I’m going to say it again could you be right, yes. Is that the ONLY reason though, no I don’t think so. Not by a long shot.

But listen if you really feel that way fine. But I’m also the SAME guy who has been begging for an IGNORE BUTTON more times than I can count. I get accused of saying the same things over and over again too and believe me I have said that the most out of everything else lol.

Personally I don’t have an issue what people say here but yes I am sadly more on the negative side of Discovery. I don’t WANT to be but sadly yes although I am still liking this season, but it’s starting to lose me.

I’m not just talking the negativity about Discovery… I’m talking about the negativity towards Trek in general ever since Discovery debuted…all all the shows thereafter. It’s too much dude. Way too much negativity towards Trek in general now. It’s fine to dislike a show regardless if it Discovery, SNW or lower decks… But coming on and slagging the shows ENDLESSLY is tiresome. You even have people PRE-hating the academy series before it’s even shot! Mention section 31 and you get the “space Hitler” people coming out of the woodwork. So no, it’s not just the hate of Discovery, it’s the constant hate of everything new. So that’s why people don’t bother. Enough already.

Which I LITERALLY said has been happening here since 2009 did I not?

Look I don’t know what you want me to say but this isn’t a new thing. We obviously agree on that lol.

Same time though we just have different philosophies on it. I have no problem of people saying whatever they want AS LONG AS they don’t attack others for their opinions or try to argue with them over everything because they don’t like their opinions and trying to shut them down.

And yes that has happened PLENTY of times here but thankfully those people have mostly been banned.

But outside of that this is how message boards operate. People are abandoning this site NOW after nearly 15 years of negativity? What took them so long lol.

And dude I’ve asked you this three times now if that’s the case then why did season 3 of Picard get so much fanfare then? Or season 1 of SNW?

Again I get what you’re saying but you seem to discount all the times fans are generally excited and positive about things here. It’s not all bad all the time INCLUDING with Discovery. Whenever they like something about it people shout it from the rooftops. Remind me how we got SNW again?

I remember having this SAME discussion with TG47 (another guy who looks like took off for good and yes probably due to the negativity) when he complained about people being too negative over SNW. I didn’t see that at all because the MAJORITY of people liked the show, but they still pointed out some of its flaws as they should.

I guess I just don’t know what people expect? Do you seriously just want to come to a board where everyone loves every show only say glowing things about it? OR are you saying that these shows don’t have any flaws for people to be that critical about? I don’t think the answer is yes to either of these questions, so what is the answer.

All I can say is I remembered waaay back in the 90s when fans were crucifying Berman and Braga saying that Voyager and Enterprise were horrible shows, DS9 was a slap in the face to Gene’s ‘vision’ and Nemesis were so bad it killed the franchise.

I didn’t see any of that on this board because it didn’t exist then. But I saw it in plenty of places. And it went on and on until Enterprise was cancelled. Doesn’t mean everyone felt that way(I personally loved DS9 and VOY from the start; no comment on Enterprise or Nemesis;)) but none of this is new bro. It’s been going literally since TNG first aired to be honest. We just didn’t have the Internet then to wallow in the hate lol.

Oh there was a lot of hate going on for Picard season 3. All the people complaining about it being nothing more than nostalgia. Saying the writing was crap and so on. And there were a lot of criticism about SNW and how it doesn’t look like it’s before TOS and how come the Enterprise looks like potato peeler. And so on. Yes, people are finally tired of it. Frankly, so am I. I have actually stopped going to other boards for that very reason. Why wait until now? Well it’s because there were literally years… YEARS… between Trek 2009, ID and Beyond. Barely anything happened on the boards. I actually thought the site would close. Now, with so much continuous Trek and Trek news, you see the whiners and complainers and haters so much more. Back during TNG and the TNG movies, DS9, etc… the internet was as it is now. You would barely hear anything from the fans unless you were at a convention. People were buying magazines and read those articles. So you didn’t see the hate and negativity like you do now. It’s so easily accessible. Anthony, if you are reading, what are the site traffic numbers like? Is there a decline like in the comments? Or are the numbers stable with only the comments dwindling?

Ok I get your point. I guess I’m just decencitize to it lol. But as I said I’m not as bothered. For example I loved season 3 of Picard. It’s my favorite season in NuTrek in terms of live action at least. It brought me back to a time where Trek was very special for me.

But same time I read all the same criticisms as well it was too much nostalgia, a lot of memberberries etc. And I didn’t really disagree with that sentiment but didn’t have any real issues either. I understand people just have issues with the show and I had a few as well but more minor.

Same with SNW, I generally think it’s a good show but I get the criticisms for that one too especially the canon ones which drives me crazy lol. But that’s why we come to places like this, to hash out stuff out with fellow fans. If others are getting triggered over it because some of is just want to discuss these things then OK but this isn’t the place for them obviously.

And no maybe it wasn’t as in your face in the 90s because obviously the Internet as big as it is now. Social media didn’t exist. I always remind people YouTube started the last year Enterprise was on. But still there were PLENTY of places to talk Star Trek and by the late 90s it became very negative by then. It’s worst now in terms of much is out there but the vitriol was still pretty bad. Type in Berman’s name on this site and you will see it here circa 2007 and on.

But if you need a break for awhile certainly understandable.

See, this kind of back and forth is what gets the comment count over 100. I’m not sure that’s a good thing.

Even if there was hate for Picard season 3 it wasn’t the majority who felt that way, far from it and tons of people still discussed it. In fact the sole reason I joined this board was to just discuss that season. I really planned to stop posting here once it was over. But hardly anyone is discussing this show this season which is odd since most who is watching it at least seems to like it.

And I used to be a huge NuTrek hater. Guilty as charged lol. I had no problems being cynical about it because we are now paying for these shows full time and the Internet is the place to vent and debate this stuff. No one I know in real life outside 1 or 2 people knows these shows exist much less watch them. Oddly Star Trek feels more niche today even though there is so much of it on right now.

But anyway these sites are the places fans come to be honest about their thoughts. I was very disappointed with JJ verse, Discovery and especially Picard and have no problem saying so. But I didn’t want to hate any of them but overall they all been mostly disappointments. Obviously not just to me but a lot of people. I will say the JJ movies were more popular with newbies but clearly not enough cared after awhile and why Beyond ultimately failed but that’s a different thread.

As far as the shows themselves I have been open-minded about all of them and oddly they always started off strong but end in a winper.

But even that has changed since I love he animated shows out the gate and SNW finally feels like 90s Star Trek again which a lot of people like me was missing.

Now oddly I’m on the other side of it and considers myself a NuTrek lover. Who knew that was possible lol. But it proves I was never out to hate anything; it just sucked IMO.

Like I said I’m even enjoying Discovery now, my worst show in the entire franchise. But I understand if others still think they are bad and just want to vent. I can’t be a hypocrite about it. If I could get online and spew why I thought shows like Discovery and Picard were total trash then I have to allow others say that about shows I truly like like SNW or LDS.

That’s how it works right? I believe message boards are here to hash everything out regardless my personal feelings about it. Some people oddly can’t seem to understand this basic reality when they decide to join a board and that’s why they get banned or everyone hates them; not for their opinions but constantly trying to censor others over theirs.

Sure you may be right and people are sick of the negativity. But we’re Star Trek fans, this is how we usually roll! 😂

But yeah I get it it can feel too much at times but I’m actually with Tiger2 on this one most people seems to be a lot more positive lately. The last year has been really fun to talk about Star Trek thanks to LDS, Prodigy, Picard season 3, SNW and now even this show. Of course there will always be naysayers but they don’t overrun these boards either. It’s not YouTube lol.

Amazing episode again. This season the show is just knocking it outta the park! Wish it wasn’t the last season.

Admittedly this is kind of a paint-by-numbers Star Trek episode, but I enjoyed it quite a bit if largely for Tilly’s charisma. I do find the ongoing Culber existential crisis a little off balance, feels like we’ve already been here before with him after a far more significant event. But I do like aspects of his crisis, especially the tug between the scientific and the spiritual and how that’s expressed in his conversation with the analytical (yet caring) Stamets. Like much of Discovery’s writing, the story does take some logic shortcuts that I find distractingly convenient, but at least it fills in most of the gaps. On a side note, although I have a very high end sound system that sounds phenomenal with most streaming content, Discovery has uniquely terrible onset audio, it’s been a constant problem for the show (and seemingly all Toronto-based productions), but this season is by far the worst. It’s making it really hard to understand every word being spoken, I’m constantly rewinding to listen again and I just straight-up miss things all the time because the voices are often garbled.

While I certainly did not dislike this episode, I still found its resolution to be kinda lacking. It left me wondering whether they couldn’t have found a way to bend the Prime Directive instead of outright breaking it (even though, arguably the DISCO-crew weren’t the first to do so but rather the Denobulan scientist who installed those weather towers in the first place). It seemed like they just took the easiest possible route there… Also: Why was the episode even called “Whistlespeak”? Was there any sense in introducing that culture’s whistle language at all? I was honestly flabbergasted that there was no mention of such means of communication actually existing on Earth (on the Canary Island of La Gomera) and it existing on that planet could’ve been a nice setup for another linguistics-centered episode (not necessarily another “Darmok”, but maybe something akin to SNW’s “Children of the Comet” – you know like, a linguistic problem interwoven with a bunch of other problems). However, upon closer inspection, the whole introduction of that concept just went absolutely nowhere. A bit of a pity if you ask me.

Thank you! The titular “whistlespeak” was completely irrelevant to the plot or theme of the episode. I kept waiting for it to at least play a function in the third act. The writing of Disco can be so maddeningly sloppy.

Loved this episode. Very smart writing and continued with a great pacing. It had quite the TNG feel to it as well as feeling like a really Star Trek-y episode.

Really loving this season. The writing has been very solid as has been the acting.

For how much I dislike this season, I must admit this was actually a good episode to watch. As usual too many shared emotions, but the plot and the story was enjoyable for once.

I know I have mentioned this before but the dearth of posts this season is really surprising.. It’s the middle episode of the final season and its barely gotten 60 posts so far after a day. And again this is not TM alone. The show has lacked discussion everywhere and nowhere close to the kinds of discussions SNW season 2 and especially Picard season 3 got.

Maybe its getting more viewings than the discussions themselves are suggesting but if not it’s probably was a good idea to end the show after this season. I think a large part of the fanbase have simply moved on.

Yeah, I was curious about this and went back to check. Each recap/review article for SNW and Picard got hundreds of comments.

Yeah! And to be more fair I went and checked how many views those shows previous seasons got in the seasons run to correlate with the current episode of this season and for episode 6 Picard season 3 had 450 posts (which is pretty insane lol). For SNW season 2 it had around 240 posts which to be fair is the more common number for most live action shows.

Picard was more of an outlier for the obvious reasons. But then again it’s also PROOF when people are excited or passionate about a show or season you see it reflected.

It’s not nearly the same for this season. Many seem to like it overall and I include myself in that even if I’m starting to feel more mixed about it, but no one is really jumping up and down about it either.

I noticed this as well, engagement is very low which I suspect is reflected in the viewership. Part of this is probably the long 2-year hiatus and the cancellation, not to mention lack of promotion. This season also seems to lack a hook like the previous season, I know my interest was very low because I felt this story had been told and there really was nothing noteworthy this time. However, this season has been significantly more interesting than I expected because it’s so smart about its canon, for once! I’m really enjoying the work put into building this world and telling a story within the Star Trek mythos.

I think you nailed it. Viewership is just probably much lower these days which shouldn’t be surprising since they cancelled the show lol.

But ironically this is the most I have enjoyed the show so far and that’s probably because they are really embracing canon these days. I love we have the Breen back finally and I have loved how they dived into stuff like the Dominion war, Trill mythology, and the Progenitors. Every episode has been a link to old school Trek connections like how this episode linked the Denobulans (would’ve been cool if we saw actual Denobulans though).

It hasn’t all been winners like the Mirror universe stuff and the ISS Enterprise connections felt really weak and shoehorned like many have said; but I still applaud them for the effort. But overall it sadly doesn’t feel like many people care anymore. I remember how much fun it was here and other places to talk about Picard season 3. There was real excitement about it.

Oddly there is none of that here this season. People seem to like it, comment what they like but no real exchanges about any of it. I think the two year wait including how disappointed people were with last season just made the reception to this season feel very ho hum so far. I can’t believe it’s already passed the halfway mark.

It actually reminds me how Beyond was received. It came out, most people, at least old school fans, seem to at least like it (it’s my favorite of the three) but it was obvious the hype was over because no one really talked about it much after the first few weeks after it came out. And of course it bombed which was more odd because it was a decent movie but a lot of Trekkies and newbies had moved on.

This feels very similar.

That’s a good comparison. I liked Beyond too, but sometimes even I forget it exists.

Also, I wonder if Culber’s holo-Grandma is going to be the medical-holo on Academy. This seems like a perfect set up.

This one reminded me of first couple seasons of Enterprise. Not because of the Denobulan references but because it was uninspired, pointless, and painfully boring.

i’m sorry but i really can’t stand Tilly. she is like the opposite of Ensign Kim, who spent 7 years overachieving as an ensign where as Tilly is now a wise old sage full of nervous / frantic confidence. i hope she’s not a series regular on Starfleet Academy, the way she’s written and performed is so offsetting. meanwhile lets sideline Saru, IMO the only true ST style character on DSC.

Very Star Trek and it had some good performances, notably Mary Wiseman and SMG’s. This was certainly nothing we haven’t seen before from other Trek shows, they just added the detail about their language and some connection buzzwords and Culber’s less than compelling spiritual crisis.

But a solid double all the same.

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Review: Star Trek: Discovery Season 5 Episode 7 “Erigah”

Moll and L’ak’s quest for freedom takes a drastic turn for the worse as the criminal pair find themselves within the Federation’s grasp – and the Breen are knocking on the door.

After escaping the I.S.S. Enterprise just before Discovery could capture them, Moll ( Eve Harlow ) and the wounded L’ak ( Elias Toufexis ) are ensnared by the U.S.S. Locherer . Discovery arrives on the scene so Captain Michael Burnham ( Sonequa Martin-Green ) can escort them to Federation HQ, but a last-minute development arrests that plan: the Breen are bringing their biggest, deadliest, meanest-looking dreadnaught to bear against the Federation to get L’ak back.

Admiral Charles Vance ( Oded Fehr ) initially ordered Burnham to jump away from Federation HQ to protect Moll and L’ak, but Burnham reasons having Discovery stand its ground will ultimately lead to a solution to this political and diplomatic crisis. But why are the Breen bringing so much firepower and risking war just to fulfill a blood bounty?

In “Erigah,” we’re treated to a surprise: the return of Commander D. Nhan ( Rachael Ancheril ). Fans may remember her last from season four’s “ Rubicon ,” where she served as a member of Federation Security. Disappointingly, Nhan’s role in this episode feels underutilized. Any member of Federation Security could have filled her position without affecting the plot, which is the telltale sign of a wasted character. What’s missing is any significant development related to her overarching storyline—such as her struggle to reintegrate into her own culture after time-traveling to the future. Given that this is the show’s final season, it’s regrettable that Nhan’s character doesn’t receive a more impactful sendoff. Hopefully, we’ll encounter her again in the remaining three episodes, providing a more fitting conclusion to her journey.

“The word ‘diplomacy’ isn’t even in their vocabulary.” “Then we shall teach it to them.” – Rayner and T’Rina, on the Breen.

Burnham correctly deduces there’s more to the Breen’s interest in L’ak than meets the eye. Six primarchs are aiming for control of the Breen Imperium, and that has led to internal unrest. Moreover, thanks to a report from the still-off-screen Saru (it’s a damn shame Doug Jones isn’t in this season more), we know the Breen’s political quarrels stem from members of the Breen royal family competing for the throne.  A fairly one-sided conversation with the wounded L’ak confirms Burnham’s suspicions: L’ak is a member of the royal family, and is the only way his uncle, Primarch Ruhn ( Tony Nappo ), can claim the Breen throne. Getting L’ak back goes beyond a blood bounty for Ruhn – it’s the only way to gain power.

While Burnham, Admiral Vance, and President T’Rina ( Tara Rosling ) – standing in for President Rillak – stare down the Breen, Moll and L’ak try a last shot at freedom. On Discovery , the pair formulate a desperate escape plan; Moll will make a run for it as L’ak hacks his biobed (sure, why not?) and overdoses himself to cause a distraction. The plan works, unbelievably, but only insofar as Moll escapes the forcefield in which she and L’ak are being held. Her escape backfires when L’ak accidentally takes a lethal dose of the drugs, forcing her to say goodbye to her love.

“L’ak is your world. I know that. I also know what it’s like to lose one. Don’t miss your chance to be with him. For him.” – Book to Moll, as L’ak is dying.

Not quite all is lost for Moll, however, as she sees a narrow chance to still get what she wants. Handing herself over to the Breen and helping them find the Progenitor tech means she might be able to clear the blood bounty she and the now-deceased L’ak share, and perhaps bring him back to life using the life-creating properties of the Progenitors’ tech. So, that’s where Moll’s story ends in this episode – hopping on a Breen dreadnaught, nesting in the lair of the enemy, and trying to help the Federation’s adversary find the galaxy’s ultimate treasure first. What could go wrong?

Commander Rayner ( Callum Keith Rennie ) is more than his typical hard-edged self in this episode. The Breen’s arrival rustled up painful memories, and it takes a bit of convincing for him to tell his captain why he’s so hostile against the alien race.

It turns out his homeworld, Kellerun was once occupied by the Breen, and Rayner saw firsthand how ferocious and unforgivingly violent Breen can be. He even lost his family to the helmeted off-worlders, so yes, Rayner has an axe to grind against the brutalists now on the Federation’s doorstep. Much to T’Rina’s and Burnham’s chagrin, Rayner isn’t afraid to advocate total annihilation of the Federation’s newest enemy. (How long before we get a novel filling in Rayner’s tragic backstory?)

Rayner’s tale does give Burnham an idea for how to deal with Ruhn, but we must wonder: Why doesn’t Rayner voluntarily offer his intel in the face of the Breen’s overwhelming threat, which he has experienced firsthand? Despite the painful memories the Breen elicits for him, shouldn’t he understand every advantage helps Federation leadership concoct a defense against the massive dreadnaught?

An offer to trade an enormous amount of dilithium, likely still uber-valuable in the post-Burn galaxy, doesn’t convince Ruhn to back off wanting L’ak and Moll. So, the Federation plays hardball, and T’Rina asserts that instead of giving Ruhn his bounty, she will hand Moll and L’ak over to another Breen primarch, Tahal, who supposedly gave a competing offer for the criminals. Ruhn thinks the Federation is bluffing, until Rayner supports their ruse with detailed knowledge of Tahal, knowledge he undoubtedly gained from Tahal’s occupation of Kellerun. Ultimately, Ruhn agrees to let the Federation keep L’ak, as that would ensure other Breen primarchs can’t use the royal family member as a shortcut to the throne. But as we’ve seen, Ruhn doesn’t walk away from Federation HQ empty-handed.  

Despite the confrontation with the Breen, Discovery ’s crew still needs to figure out the next step in the Progenitor puzzle. A metal card attached to the clue found in the last episode – complete with a Betazoid logo and the phrase “labyrinths of the mind” – points to a Betazoid book authored by Marina Derex, one of the scientists who fabricated the puzzle trail to the Progenitor tech.

The metal card is actually a library pass, a realization Adira Tal ( Blu del Barrio ) and Sylvia Tilly ( Mary Wiseman ) have thanks to the niche knowledge of Jett Reno ( Tig Notaro ), who points them in the direction of a traveling library in space, called the Eternal Gallery and Archive. Thanks to Stamets and Cleveland Booker ( David Ajala ) working on the location of the next clue, we know where this library is now. It’s a familiar place for Deep Space Nine and Voyager fans: the Badlands. We certainly look forward to seeing what this iconic location looks like in 2024.

There are three episodes left in the season, and plenty of opportunities for twists and turns in the path to the Progenitors tech, never mind time for Discovery to show the audience its take on the Progenitors tech itself, with all the technological and spiritual elements that might entail. Intriguingly, things are a bit more personal after the events of “Erigah.” Now that Moll is working with the Breen, will Book end up doing something foolhardy to protect the only family he has left, and how will he weigh that motivation against his residual love for Burnham? What will Moll sacrifice to bring back her partner? How will Culber’s spiritual journey play out as the crew gets closer to the secret of life itself, and will that journey foreshadow spiritual awakenings other crewmembers might experience? Discovery has set up quite the expectations for the last half of its final season, and we’re holding our breath that they stick the landing.

Stray Thoughts:

• The Breen attack on Earth hundreds of years ago referenced in this episode was seen in the Deep Space Nine episode “The Changing Face of Evil.”
• It can’t be a coincidence that the first name of the Betazoid scientist who worked on the Progenitors tech, Marina, has the same first name as Marina Sirtis, the actress who played Star Trek ’s most famous Betazoid.
• Rayner recalls a Romulan saying: “Never turn your back on a Breen.” This same saying was referenced in Deep Space Nine ’s “By Inferno’s Light.”
• Why would Tilly be taking a shuttle to Federation HQ, and not a transporter? Is it perhaps so Stamets could intercept her and keep her on the ship?
• Besides seeing a Breen dreadnaught in the time bug cycle, how could Burnham be sure it’s the same one as what ultimately arrives at Federation HQ?
• When Burnham was first learning about who she would pick as her first officer, wouldn’t Rayner’s homeworld’s occupation by the Breen show up in her research?
• At the end of Rayner’s monologue about his past, Burnham asserts he just gave them a way to deal with the Breen. Why doesn’t Rayner ask how, or what Burnham’s plan is?
• Who else aren’t fans of the swinging camera technique employed in this episode’s fight scenes?
• Wouldn’t scans taken after Moll was captured show she has implanted cloaking technology, as Zora ( Annabelle Wallis ) assumes when Moll mysteriously evades capture?
• Burnham asserts Rayner did “really well today” at the end of the episode, but did he? If not for Burnham’s persistence, he likely wouldn’t have revealed his knowledge of the Breen, which helped in negotiations with Ruhn, and just continued to be a thorn in the side of Federation leadership.

New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery stream Thursdays on Paramount+ , this season stars Sonequa Martin-Green (Captain Michael Burnham), Doug Jones (Saru), Anthony Rapp (Paul Stamets), Mary Wiseman (Sylvia Tilly), Wilson Cruz (Dr. Hugh Culber), David Ajala (Cleveland “Book” Booker), Blu del Barrio (Adira) and Callum Keith Rennie (Rayner). Season five also features recurring guest stars Elias Toufexis (L’ak) and Eve Harlow (Moll).

Stay tuned to TrekNews.net for all the latest news on Star Trek: Discovery , Star Trek: Prodigy , Star Trek: Strange New Worlds , Star Trek: Lower Decks , and more.

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Kyle Hadyniak has been a lifelong Star Trek fan, and isn't ashamed to admit that Star Trek V: The Final Frontier and Star Trek: Nemesis are his favorite Star Trek movies. You can follow Kyle on Twitter @khady93 .

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